Mia Nielsen | Director, Art Toronto | Processing trauma and transcending into new conversations

This week, host Eva Hartling is joined by Mia Nielsen, Director of Art Toronto, Canada’s annual art fair. Running October 29 through November 8, Art Toronto is playing it big after a year of no in-person events due to Covid. With 10 days of art online and in-person, from Vancouver to Halifax, along with global conversations— the fair is responding to the moment, including a commitment to reflecting the true diversity of artists from our country, as well as gender representation. Leading this excitement is Mia, who has been a producer and curator of art and design spaces for over 20 years. This is a conversation you won't want to miss.

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Full Episode Transcript

Eva: All right, Mia, it's such a pleasure having you on The Brand is Female today. Thank you so much for making time to speak with me.

Mia: Thank you, Eva. It's really a pleasure to be.

Eva: And I'm especially grateful that we get a chance to talk because you are currently in the midst of starting to set up for arts, Toronto, which starts just a few days from now, by the time our listeners hear this, it will be in full motion.

So this is all very exciting and you must be very excited to be back in a physical format after having to skip a year.

Mia: Absolutely. It has COVID has been a wild ride for all of us and certainly for producers of large scale events and exhibitors. It's been a it's been a journey, but I have to say.

You just being on the show floor today, seeing the walls go up, knowing that exhibitors are going to be here within hours to install, seeing the incredible exhibitions that they're bringing. I'm so excited for our audiences to to be immersed in this.

Eva: Indeed. And we're going to get to talk a little bit about what the 2020 for 2021 edition has to offer, but I want to go back in time a little bit to start a conversation and have a look at your own journey.

And I'm curious to know when you were growing up, when you were younger, did you already dream of a career in the

Mia: arts? Absolutely. Yeah. From I mean for as long as I can remember. As a child it was more singing and performance art. My mom was a singer. There's a lot of creative people, a lot of just creativity in general.

It wasn't until university that I chose, like to go towards visual art and then. Which quickly turned into curation. I would be in the in the studios and I was so interested in what other people were making and found myself, having a lot of conversations with young artists about what they were making and just making connections.

I'd be like, oh, it's so interesting that you, that this is your concern, or this is what you're exploring here in sculpture. Do you know this person who's in photography who's interested in the same thematic, but coming at it from a different direction. And those conversations led really organically into contributing to exhibitions, helping people install and select work and then putting on exhibitions.

Eva: And I'm curious to know what was that like? And obviously we're a show where, we talk about women and women's experiences. We know generally speaking women there is a gender bias in the arts industry, just like in many other industries, unfortunately throughout your years, doing this work, what has been your experience?

Working with women artists specifically, but also in your own role, being a woman approaching, this position as a leader, creating other people's art. And did you I'm curious to know as well. And we'll talk about. You know the context around our Toronto in a few minutes, but have you seen a progression or a shift and I'm hoping the answer is yes.

Since you started working in the industry,

Mia: for sure. I will say that yes, there is absolutely gender bias. There, there are glass ceilings in in the art world. There are so many industries, particularly in the museum world. But I have to say something that was so inspiring to me when I was in school was the truly visionary women who came up in the 20th century who supported artists, who were art dealers who really blazed a trail of their own.

And I think part of what was exciting to me, About the art world. And still frankly, is that that's so many can find an alternative path. There's a lot of luck involved. There's a and there is of course there's privilege, that's but I also think that there are opportunities for.

Self-direction here in the art world that it may, maybe it's a little easier to get off the beaten path in terms of artist's representation. I've seen an incredible surge over the last, maybe 5, 6, 7, 8 years. For recognition of women, artists, but both young artists and artists who have come before.

I think of Hilma Climpt, whose exhibition at the Guggenheim a couple of years ago was an absolute sensation. A really important artist who had not been recognized for a long time. And today, I see. Certainly in, in gallery rosters. When I started in this industry, it was very common to have an all male roster.

It was almost and now it's almost unheard of it's wonderful to see. And with that, we also see. A really exciting range of practices that we may not have seen, years before. And I'm thinking about works that may have been considered more craft-based right.

Like tapestries and and ceramics and. These kinds of work aren't necessarily are, they're not exclusively made by women, but there is a new recognition for for the beauty of that work, but also the cultural significance and the language, the cultural language that these objects are speaking.

Then it's not just about it's not just paintings anymore.

Eva: Absolutely. And I think this is a good segue to talk about your work at Art Toronto, which you joined as director in 2019. So this gave you one edition before the pandemic.

Mia: Got this, yeah, like half an addition really.

Cause I came into the fair halfway through the planning process of 2019. So I was able to make some some adjustments In the show, but mostly it was it was, the incredible team that I had the opportunity to join who had put that show together. And so this is really my first in-person fair, the first kind of true vision of what I've been working on.

So it's really exciting to be back. Into the show to look at the fair as as as an exhibition, because at heart, exhibition making is what I do and have done for a long time. Before art Toronto, I was the curator of am of a boutique hotel group. Was really focused in bringing art and culture into alternative spaces and appealing to to wide audiences, to diverse audiences placemaking and collaborating with festivals and putting on huge events.

So this was this year's Art toronto is an opportunity to come back to that exhibition structure. And connect with audiences on different levels in that.

Eva: And tell me about the opportunity that you see in the Canadian context. The show takes us in Toronto.

Obviously. There's amazing representation from galleries across Canada, artists from across Canada as well. And it's really become this tradition for anyone. Follows the art circuit and some of us may be attending the art basil of the world and so on, but there is something very unique about and something wonderful about having this event that takes place in our own backyard.

And aff ord so much Canadian talent. And I'm curious to know after a year, really, having to take a year off, I think there was some virtual programming, but how are you approaching the 20, 21

Mia: edition? Oh boy. The. First of all, I think that part of what makes our Toronto so exciting is that there are so many incredible artists who are coming out of Canada right now.

And there's an opportunity with art, Toronto that you can come to the show and see. And see artists before, before they're really recognized on the world stage. I'm thinking about, somebody like Sarah Sweenar who was really the toast of performa in New York a couple of weeks ago and has worked in the Guggenheim and other major museums.

Curtis tall, we Santiago is another one. Who's has an important show on in Paris right now. With, thinking about the exhibition of art, Toronto, we had some Some restrictions, that we had to take into consideration some changes to the space.

Most importantly, we needed to put wider aisles in to allow for, more flow. And, there were a number of these COVID measures that we had to take into consideration and I'm so lucky to work with this incredible team. And, we put our heads together and we looked at like, how do we, how can we make this an exciting experience for the audience?

And so what we did was, we took this minimum number and we made it even bigger. We made these aisles so big that we were able to. Invite galleries to come in and program that space. And so there will be sculptures and installations within these extra wide Isles. So it'll have almost like the feeling of a sculpture garden and of wandering through these incredible works.

We also worked with a new a new designer. Allie McQuaid is her name. She's amazing. She's she has a company called future studio here in Toronto. And she has brought this really elegant vision to creating these small lounge spaces and these like moments of repose, like in the middle of the sculpture garden.

Eva: That sounds absolutely wonderful. And interestingly enough, in the last edition pre COVID I was lucky enough to host a tour with a curator from the museum of contemporary arts of Montreal.

Marie-Eve Beauprix and I actually will, and I should give her the credit because really it was her team who led this exercise. She worked on tallying up the artists represented at the fair, and it turns out that you had reached parity, there was equivalent women, artists and men artists represented, which was fantastic.

And obviously since that time, and that's already great because we know that in most art shows in most museums in most exhibits this is not the norm and there are typically more male artists represented in any given institution. So this really this gives credit to the interest and the efforts towards equity.

And diversity and showing as much of our Canadian talent and its entirety as possible. So I'm curious to know for this year's edition, we can't hide from the events of the past year and a half. And the COVID pandemic has also, I think, brought a racial reckoning, the black lives matter movement conversations

and in Canada, several conversations around issues that indigenous communities and indigenous people continue to face in our country. And I'm curious to know how you're addressing that in the context of this year's.

Mia: Yeah. That's such a great question and such an important topic.

And of course, working in culture, the these are such important considerations. So we started last year in 2020 as part of our online programming. A conversation was a panel discussion on decolonizing, museums and collections. There were it was an incredible.

Panel and included. Lario St. Mensa. Who's a wonderful curator from the states as well as Sandra Jackson, Dumont who runs a museum in LA this year, it was so important that we continue that, that we make this an annual conversation that this is this a moment where we returned to this issue, because it is.

So important and is not something that is going to be fixed in, in a short period of time. This is something that requires all of us to to focus and learn and to, question our biases and and move forward in a in a more supportive. And celebratory way. So this year the decolonizing panel features all indigenous practitioners.

So curators, museum directors and artists, it includes Dr. Patricia Norby. She's the first indigenous curator at the metropolitan museum of art in in New York.

Including John D. Hampton. Who's the director of the Mackenzie art gallery in Saskatchewan as the the first two spirit director of the museum. So that's going to be a really wonderful conversation. Certainly in Canada, as we unpack our, colonialist.

History and the genocide of indigenous peoples it's been really exciting to work in the art world and see so many incredible makers from those communities who are whose work is getting so much so much attention. I think that like something that I think is really wonderful about is that it has an opportunity to, it has a way of communicating when.

Language can't. I think that art can be visionary and can lead the way. And with our galleries, we're seeing so many bring an incredible stable of indigenous meaty, and artists over 30% of our galleries will have We'll have indigenous artworks. And that is an, that includes, what one would think of perhaps is like traditional carvings or prints, but also incredibly contemporary, like beaded sculptures digital artworks painted installations.

It's really exciting to see the works that are coming up.

Eva: And that sounds fantastic. So very excited to see all of that at at this year's edition for listeners who maybe are budding art collectors are starting to build an art collection. And obviously, RTO is a great place to look at a variety of artists, become familiar with.

Producing Canada and really come across a beautiful diversity of art in terms of media, in terms of artists in terms of background and so on. But for anyone looking to support women, artists specifically, what would be a good place to start?

Mia: The, certainly, as you said earlier, we do have close to gender parity.

Looking specifically for works by women, you'll find an incredible diversity here at the show, and for people who are, curious about art collecting, or perhaps are just and just getting started there is a real range of works. Certainly there are museum worthy works.

At our Toronto really serious works, but then there are also others by, much younger artists that, are started like, just a few hundred dollars. So there's a really something for something for everyone, to use a beaten phrase, but,

And the. Sorry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna drift for a minute. There's also a wonderful diversity of gallery owners. There are so many, and galleries, particularly in Canada. They are, they're essentially small businesses and Many of our galleries are run by women. They're, they're women who own these galleries and some of them, have been at it for 20, 30 plus years.

And others are are much newer, Truly visionary. I think of, of course you're in Montreal and I'm such a fan of ProSoft Paul, Jay. I think that what they do is so exciting and visionary and then look at someone like Jane Corkin or Miriam Scheel who or who have been developing the art marketing Canada for decades.

 One of, one of my favorite programs this year is is a conversation that will be on our online, our art fair platform. It's powered by art land. It will be up until November 7th. Certainly your listeners will have a chance to explore that. So we have a really interesting panel regarding the new museums triennial.

So this, the exhibition is called soft water heart stone. It was co-curated by Margo Norton. The new museum triennial is a really important exhibition for young talent for emerging artists. It's a real career launcher. It's internationally, there is no better place to discover artists who are really about to About to hit a new level in their careers, like the new museum triennial.

So this year's quite interesting because there there are a number of Canadians that are included and including Nadia the week Janine, Fran, Julie, and Lori King three incredible female artists. That panel includes Margo Norton, the curator, and is moderated by RBC, senior curator. Corey Jackson is wonderful.

Really? It's a powerhouse of a table, I must say. Yes. And something that I found so exciting about that panel is, each each speaks about their work, of course, Margo from her curatorial perspective. And then the artists. Describing their journey of developing their works, but there's this beautiful moment in that panel where the three artists are talking about how they have admired each other's works, their works are all vastly different, but they have each learned something from the other, whether it's from simply seeing each other's works, whether it's, sharing.

Studio space or residency space, or just knowing each other socially, it's this, it's a really exciting moment for Canadian art and these three young women who are really hitting their stride in an important way, and that's being recognized on this stage.

Eva: That sounds absolutely wonderful. I hope I can catch that.

This brings me to want to ask you about this state of the art market in Canada. A year and a half of pandemic, which we know has, caused major shifts in most industries. And I'm especially interested in hearing about what this means for Canadian artists specifically. And you're obviously in touch with a lot of the galleries who are a part of the fair but artists as well.

So what's the. What's the pulse of the market. And are we seeing more opportunities? Are we seeing a slow down? And what does it mean? Obviously thinking of our women, artists specifically,

Mia: for sure. So much with the pandemic I don't think there's necessarily like a straight answer or an answer that would serve all communities.

But I will say that. Something that I found, I find quite fascinating about the pandemic is that when so many people were at home and isolated for so long and certainly in Toronto we had an excruciatingly long lockdown. And I think that. People were looking for inspiration in new ways.

They were looking at their homes in a different way. And a lot of people became interested in art or at least, maybe purchase that first work or, Or or returned to collecting after a hiatus of some time. So I think, there, in some ways there's a lot of robustness in the market right now that people are really excited about about living with art and sound.

Can you hear me, and having inspiring surroundings There's also, certainly in Toronto with here, the focus on the year of public art. And as we come out of the pandemic, this was your office, it was your yoga studio. It was your knee, it was your daycare, it was your cinema. And certainly with our galleries and this is not a one size fits all kind of an answer, but there were many who reconnected with collectors, met new collectors, and when things started to open up again, returning to galleries, returning to museums it was such an incredibly special.

Special thing. So I think, all things considered that the market is quite strong right now and that a lot of people are looking at art and interested in living with art in a, with a renewed focus and excitement.

Eva: My favorite question to ask everyone

is one thing you wish women

Mia: would do. I think that. There are certainly when I think about curators galleries there's a real interest in looking at and work by women showing and supporting work by women, particularly diverse women.

And transgendered women that it's not a binary, that there is a that in the art world, You know, and that it's becoming less of a monoculture and. And I think about this in terms of

Eva: well, and the art is an important turns of

Mia: blacklist happens in terms of perfect,

Eva: perfect way to conclude our conversation when

Mia: Tronto to decide and art

Eva: thought by, thank you so much. Me. I was grateful of luck. This edition, looking forward to seeing

Mia: processing trauma and transcending into into new conversations. I think, art can really it is our memory keeper. In some ways it is stories that we have told, but is also the future that

Eva: wonderful all those links and everybody can engage with their fare.

That's fantastic.

Mia: Yeah. I gotta say I'm incredibly, I'm just I'm. I'm so excited too, to just have more cultural experiences in person, whether they be performances exhibitions music, dance, yeah, for sure. Okay, let me see, I'm going to phrase this one.

Eva: So we've been talking about women in the arts, and obviously we know for women in any profession finding that balance of personal life and often family life and knowing, and I think this has been amplified throughout the pandemic.

Women are. Often responsible for the added responsibilities around childcare, among other things and then being able to balance other aspects of the art world. And in some cases for artists, this includes, running your own business, promoting your work and, wearing multiple.

Hat's in addition to being a creator. And I wonder what that looks like for you. And often in these conversations, I bring up, I hate talking about the concept of balance because I don't think balance is achievable at all times. We always try for it. I think it's more about staying grounded and, making it work.

And that's a great question.

Mia: I'm a single mom and have been on my own with my son almost since the beginning. So I totally get that balance of career home. And also creative pursuits. I think that. It's getting easier now that, he's in, he's a teenager.

So he he's, self-sufficient, in some ways, certainly in the pandemic, like a lot of kids his age, it wasn't necessarily about taking care of the, like the physical needs of young children, but really helping him through the. The psychological, The, the the stress of it all.

And I think, what you said about balance is really important that sure. It is something that we strive for all the time, and it's totally a goal. And it is definitely important to take care of yourself and know like when that needs to become the priority and when work needs to meet needs to become the priority.

But it was also about like weathering the storm together.

Yep.

Eva: Okay. So I'm just pausing. So our editor knows to add this in, and now the second question we want to add. Also thinking of how I will phrase this. So the fair does a wonderful job obviously of showcasing Canadian art. The physical fairs attended by a lot of Canadian collectors.

I'm assuming some who travel as well, although that might be slightly different this year, but hopefully the international collectors are back as well. What are other ways that, you know as a, the industry overall we can promote Canadian talent and make sure that the wonderful artists, yeah.

That's important. In terms of warfare,

Mia: The and, this is another kind of learning from the pandemic, like the tools for. Experiencing art online have become so sophisticated with, the VR rooms which we do have the incredible image, quality that.

Makes sharing work across borders, and promoting Canadian work internationally. We've, we've, we have S we have so many tools and it's really exciting for me to see in particular because this is a, I've been part of this aspect of the art world for a long time. It was my God.

In 2000 after doing a stint with Sotheby's and their online division that I started my first business which was promoting contemporary, Canadian art internationally. And the bread and butter of my work was through online sales, mostly of Canadian artists to American collectors.

But but that also grew to working on exhibitions. I worked with a couple of art fairs. I even did I did a couple of exhibitions in in Europe of Canadian artists all as a result of that early online PR promotion production and.

Thanks so much. Thanks for going back to do that. Wonderful.

Eva: All right. Okay. So we all.

Eva Hartling: I really hope you enjoy today's conversation.

And if you did, as always, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and give us a review wherever that is possible. Thank you to TD bank group women entrepreneurs, further support of The Brand is Female. You've got it in you to succeed. Let TD help guide you. Visit The Brand is Female dot com slash podcast and click on the TD logo.

Thank you for listening. I'll be back in a week with a new guest. Thank you so much for listening to a podcast by The Brand is Female I'm Eva Hartling. And this episode was produced by our team sound engineering by Isabel Morris, research and production support, Claire Miglionico marketing and digital growth, Kayla, Gillis and partnerships, Natalie hope.